MP3 is a Wii Launch Title! *cries*
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Core X
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/708/708948.html

Is the link to the aforementioned article.
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Meta-Ridley125
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/708/708948p1.html

When i tried the link i got the dreaded 404 page, so here is the link again, just to be safe.
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jng
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I'm gonna let you guys get my two cents on this auto-update thing. I bought an Xbox360 with Perfect Dark Zero because of the cubes lack of games. After RE4 there was...oh yeah, nothing, and DS just isn't my thing, well, handhelds overall. But don't get me wrong though, I LOVE Nintendo, and I have 27 gamecube games, and I don't even want to count the money I spent on Nes, Snes and N64 games Very Happy

Um, back to the point, yeah, those auto-updates! I absolutely love Perfect Dark Zero, and eventually, I wanted to try out some glitches in the game I found on the net. Said and done, I had real fun with them, no need for detail here! But then something happened one day when I turned on the game to play som regular online Live-games, the game AUTO-UPDATED even before the friggin' Microsoft Game Studios Logo appeared, and I was like "WTF!" Shocked I started to play the game as it was intended, on Live as I said, and looked for differences. The first thing I see, new bot personalities, well that's awesome, and you could even use them in the Counter Strike Copy mode! I continued playing and trying this out and had a blast. Then I got a little bored after a few hours and wanted to play around with the glitches, and then I noticed. 9 of 10 glitches were removed!? And not even half of them really effects the gameplay for casual gamers, like SB's in the Prime games. I got real pissed and checked the net for info, and there it was, straight from Rare (the developers) themselves: "At the same time as we added the new bot personalities, we packed in a glitch fix that removed bla bla, due to bla bla and bla bla"

Ok, I can understand that some of glitches can be used to take advantage of a Live game with players who doesn't know about them, and I've seen it happened, and I have myself got real frustrated at people using them, but it's still VERY rare, and it doesn't get you good rankings. If you don't like the glitchers, just leave the game and connect to a new one, simple as that.

But still, this really worries me about how Nintendo/Retro is going to use this Connect-24 function, because with Xbox live, that isn't even online when the console is shut off, forces updates on you if you're logged in and start a game that awaits a patch. There is NO way around it if you want to play the game on Live against others human players, no way around! So if I want to try the glitches again, I have to take out my networkcable, erase ALL my content on my harddrive, trailers, demos etc. and start an entirely new profile, and then I can't even play online, because if I connect the console and go online and start the game again, it will auto update and remove the glitches again before the title screen even shows. I mean, if Wii is connected 24/7 and "however, support of the system's 24-hour-connection is under consideration. This would allow Nintendo to push upgrades and additional content to Metroid Prime 3: Corruption owners with wireless connections even when the console is switched off." it could mean real bad things for Sequence Breakers Sad

Yeah, my 2 cents...
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Dazuro Ghenari
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no reason to be so hardcore about bug fixes in a game that has no multiplayer, and especially no online.

That's completely asinine to say "if you don't like glitchers just join a new game." Why should a player have to be inconvenienced just because the company allowed exploits like that? Besides, no company likes to see its game broken. But eitehr way, when there's no multiplayer, there's no reason to fix glitches so vehemently. Retro's done with Prime after this game anyway, so they probably woudln't spend much time fixing it up after its release.

Besides, as was stated earlier here, wouldn't that require a harddrive, which the wii lacks?
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MonsterERB
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daz, DJ addressed your very question several pages ago:
DJGrenola wrote:
system928 wrote:
Really though, how could they do it?


Microsoft do it all the time. People who have installed Linux on their xboxes have been known to have their files wiped by Microsoft deciding it would be neat to ram an update onto the xbox via Live.

system928 wrote:
There are millions of people who would have a certain game, and updating all of them would be a waste of time


fixing sequence breaks is also a waste of time when something useful could be done instead, but it doesn't seem to have stopped Nintendo.

system928 wrote:
and makeing them update all at once would be difficult to program.


checkServer(server);
if (server.hasNewContent()) {
server.updateFromServer();
}

system928 wrote:
Your whole conception of this is just plain impractical.


it is not.

system928 wrote:
And yes, no matter what excuse you make, they CANNOT rewrite discs through simple downloads and updates.


no, but they can have the machine automatically patch the code of games in memory as they load. Fixing a bug in a game's code is unlikely to require more than a couple of hundred bytes' worth of patch code, so there's plenty of room in 512 meg of flash memory for a lot of patches.

For the record, I really don't like this development. I trust Nintendo not to play with the contents of my machine about as far as I can comfortably spit.

I happen to agree with DJ on this one. Minor sequence breaks and glitches, they may not bother with. But MAJOR finds, like Doc discovering Screw Attack Secret Worlds in Echoes, or the discovery of the scan-dash in Prime, or certain standable ledges that allow item skips... a few lines of code, pushed over the connection to be patched in (via flash memory) whenever the game is booted... that wouldn't be hard at all. Retro would spin it not as "stopping sequence breaking" or "killing our fun", but "fixing a bug in the game". Even though 90% of their fans either don't care, or vehemently want the glitches to stay.
...
There is one silver lining - game-killing glitches (like the disappearing Artifact of Warrior glitch in NTSC Prime) could be fixed in this way. I don't think Retro will hold themselves back that far, though.
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Sinthy
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it depends, if you look at games like SM you have some really great bug abuse in speed runs that are fun to watch, and anyone has to be impressed by the skill required to pull it off. But on the flip side, i watched a speed run of half life and half life 2 and was quite literally bored out of my mind. the half life speed run skipped 2/3rds of the game by going outside the borders of the code, and half life 2 just abused some bug with the physics which basicly allowed the character to fly around the entire game.. so pretty much skipped most of it. so dull.
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MonsterERB
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True - but I'd prefer they leave the POSSIBILITY to do so in the game, since communities can always set rules about what is allowed in speedruns. For instance, SDA (Speed Demos Archive) is widely recognized as the repository for all WR Metroid speedruns, as well as many other video games. (Twin Galaxies need not apply.) SDA will not accept Metroid speedruns in which secret worlds are used, or any glitch which lets you leave the boundaries of the game map. This wasn't really an issue for speedruns (as they're usually slower than playing normally), at least not until Echoes. In that game, you can hop off a Warrior Ing into a SW (forget the name of the room, but it's in Ing Hive), do a quick wallcrawl (~ 30 seconds), and bypass the only required echo door in the game. This lets you skip the DS2 fight entirely, and would probably shave 2-3 minutes off a speedrun time - but it's not used, as it's not allowed. There's also an early PB expansion in Echoes, accessible right after you get space jump boots (close to Temple Assembly Site) if you use SW's - it's quicker than other early PB tricks, and would allow you to have PB's for all of Torvus... meaning PB insta-kill on Boost Guardian. Would save probably 1-2 minutes on a speedrun, but it's not used, as it's not considered legal.
...
Nothing is stopping the HL/HL2 community from deciding that a certain glitch is "too cheap" and banning its use from any WR speedrun attempts. People would still be free to use it for fun, but couldn't use it in an honest speedrun attempt.
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JediMB
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jng wrote:
"however, support of the system's 24-hour-connection is under consideration. This would allow Nintendo to push upgrades and additional content to Metroid Prime 3: Corruption owners with wireless connections even when the console is switched off."

I think people are misinterpreting what they mean when they say that they can push upgrades. They're not talking about forcing changes onto the players, but to supply an easily accessable stream of new data.

Nintendo have shown that they know about the hardcore Metroid community's love for speedruns, sequence breaks, and secret worlds and such, so you should realize how incredibly unlikely it is that they will be correcting any glitches... unless they disturb the flow of the game in ways that are harmful for casual players.
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's probably unlikely that Nintendo will patch sequence breaks. Look at what we've done to Hunters; Nintendo hasn't fixed any of it, although they've shown they CAN patch the DS by removing a glitch that occurs when you put a percent sign in your name (the percent sign is no longer allowed in names). No speed trick fixes, though. Ninty might leave some things in, but they will want to remove things that give players on Wi-Fi an unfair advantage.
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Dazuro Ghenari
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's different, I think. It just patches the wifi service, not the actual game. If they could patch the game they woulda removed the wall hide glitch by now...
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Mr Potter
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naming yourself is offline.
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Light of Dark Aether
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Metroid's becoming a franchise where games are being churned out to get more money these days. I do think that they should have increased the development time for MP3. I think they want to fix any bugs they find AFTER it's been released through the update thing. That way, they can get more sales on the Wii. I say, don't ruin the future of a game by messing up early on.
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jng
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I know they don't have to fix glitches as in multiplayer online Perfect Dark Zero for X360 becasue MP3 is offline, but then again, maybe they'll make like a megapatch after a while (not in size!) that adds, fixes and removes stuff. We don't know yet though, so, yeah... Still, the possibility is there that they will actually remove sequence breaks, maybe not all, but many of them. We'll have to wait and see...
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, even if the worst is true, i am sure that we will find a way to advoid those auto-updates. But i hope that Retro wouldn't do something like that. Heck half the reason why Prime is still such a widly played game(besides the pure greatness of it) is all the fun SB in the game(Ahh Space Jump First and Earily Plasma...) and SWs to find.
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonsterERB wrote:

...a few lines of code, pushed over the connection to be patched in (via flash memory) whenever the game is booted... that wouldn't be hard at all. Retro would spin it not as "stopping sequence breaking" or "killing our fun", but "fixing a bug in the game". Even though 90% of their fans either don't care, or vehemently want the glitches to stay.


Wait, I don't know why we're all worried... After thinking about it, I think it will be really simple to avoid... Let's think about it... A patch is just updated code, replacing one or more files... In order for the game to run the patched code, that data has to reside somewhere... This leaves four (4) options for the Wii:

1) Write it to a hard drive so it's around permanently... No problem here since the Wii has no hard drive...
2) Patched code stays in memory... That won't work because a) memory is flushed when the power goes off, and b) even if it wasn't, there's limited memory, so having game X's code sitting there while game Y is running will just make Y run slower... Not fair...
3) The patched code will download *every* time you play the game (as Monster said)... This is inefficient, but probable if the patch is small enough... This would be nice because you just make sure to play offline and avoid the patch every time...
4) Write the patched data to your memory card... It seems like they could do this, but I don't think that games scan memory cards just to boot (as opposed to scanning them when loading a saved game)... If they did this, it seems like the patched code would be on a "per-save" basis, i.e., you could have original code in save slot 1, patched code in save slot 2, etc... So if you wanted to play unpatched code, play save 1... If you want to play patched code, play save 2... Of course, they could always have some clever way to do it for all saves... But even if they do it this way (to memory card), just make sure to take your memory card out after you're done playing and always play offline...


MonsterERB wrote:

There is one silver lining - game-killing glitches (like the disappearing Artifact of Warrior glitch in NTSC Prime) could be fixed in this way. I don't think Retro will hold themselves back that far, though.


Or the more recent Sonic door lock glitch...
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