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Darth Nat
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leviathan wrote:
I'm gonna have to disagree on this one. One of the best things about forums and instant message programs is the ability to customize your profile and user to make it somewhat individual among the billions of other people who use the same programs. If we all had the same rank besides mods/admins and those with warnings, it would only take away one of the many things that makes this forum worth visiting. And since not even a fraction of the community is made up of mods/admins and people with warnings, it would looks pretty bland to see "SCU Fan" or something below EVERYONE'S name. I say if it's not changed, keep it the way it is. No sense in dropping one of the primary factors in individualism on a forum such as this.


I think you're sort of exaggerating the worth of ranks. How do they help to individualize accounts now? It's not like you can choose what rank you want; you get whatever was set for the post count you're at.

Just the fact that we can have a heated debate about this illustrates the main reason I absolutely hate ranks: People place a huge importance on them, even though they have no real value at all. It's just another thing that gives people reason to place themselves on a higher pedestal than newer members or members that don't post as much. I could really care less whether a person is an "SCU Super Fan" or a "n00b Pirate" or whatever the heck our ranks are these days; I look at the quality of posts. While most people don't abuse ranks, I think it's just better for everyone if we eliminate it entirely.

I mean, really, is doing away with one line of text that changes every 100 posts or that you could set yourself such a big deal? You have avatars. You have sigs. You have the stinkin' location thing. Why do you need another goofy little line of text to customize? If you're staying at this forum partly because of ranks, then you're not here for the right reason.
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Leviathan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Nat wrote:
Leviathan wrote:
I'm gonna have to disagree on this one. One of the best things about forums and instant message programs is the ability to customize your profile and user to make it somewhat individual among the billions of other people who use the same programs. If we all had the same rank besides mods/admins and those with warnings, it would only take away one of the many things that makes this forum worth visiting. And since not even a fraction of the community is made up of mods/admins and people with warnings, it would looks pretty bland to see "SCU Fan" or something below EVERYONE'S name. I say if it's not changed, keep it the way it is. No sense in dropping one of the primary factors in individualism on a forum such as this.


I think you're sort of exaggerating the worth of ranks. How do they help to individualize accounts now? It's not like you can choose what rank you want; you get whatever was set for the post count you're at.

Just the fact that we can have a heated debate about this illustrates the main reason I absolutely hate ranks: People place a huge importance on them, even though they have no real value at all. It's just another thing that gives people reason to place themselves on a higher pedestal than newer members or members that don't post as much. I could really care less whether a person is an "SCU Super Fan" or a "n00b Pirate" or whatever the heck our ranks are these days; I look at the quality of posts. While most people don't abuse ranks, I think it's just better for everyone if we eliminate it entirely.

I mean, really, is doing away with one line of text that changes every 100 posts or that you could set yourself such a big deal? You have avatars. You have sigs. You have the stinkin' location thing. Why do you need another goofy little line of text to customize? If you're staying at this forum partly because of ranks, then you're not here for the right reason.

I said it was one of the many reasons people visit forums or message boards in general. It all depends on which way you look at it, and from my point of view, it does give certain members a form of individuality, whether they have sigs and avs or not. Completely doing away with them wouldn't accomplish anything, as well as changing them.
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Darth Nat
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't think that's very true. I'm a staff member of another forum that is slightly larger than this one, and we have no ranks except for the moderators. No one complains. No one leaves the message board because we don't have ranks. In general, things just run much smoother because everyone is on a level playing field from the get-go. You achieve your notoriety and individuality through the actual posts you make, not by having some goofy title under your name.

I don't visit message boards to sit around and admire the wondrous ranks. I don't post on message boards so I can get a new phrase to appear under my name. I simply don't see the justification for the individuality argument since so many people on this forum have the same ranks. Ranks frustrate me to no end because I don't know why people care so much about them. I think if we did do away with them, you wouldn't even notice a change. It'd just eliminate a potential problem.
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MonsterERB
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an idea - so far we've had the "bounty hunter" rank track (old forums) and the "space pirate" rank track (these forums); if we switch forums again, a third rank track could be made - one suggestion was Ing-based, and I suppose with some thought you could come up with many such ideas. You could also make a "default track" where your rank would be "new member" for the first 30 days, "SCU veteran" after that.
...
Maybe there could be an option in the profile for each member at the new forums where they can choose their rank track. Like this:
Code:
Which rank track would you prefer:
(1) Bounty Hunter
(2) Space Pirate
(3) Ing Swarm
(4) Default

...
Don't know if it's doable, but it's a thought.
...
And Nat, I do agree with you completely that many people exaggerate the importance of rank - but - for newer members, it's a fun thing to have. With increased time on the forums and more maturity, people realize that ranks are just window dressing. And, I don't see our current system (post-count based ranks) as being a problem. I can't remember the last time I saw someone spamming to get a new rank, or telling a newbie to STFU because "I outrank j00!1!!11!!".
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killer-ale
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And someone finally interprets the topic the way it was intended! Sure, it's an interesting debate as to whether or not they're actually worth it, but I did actually think this was going to be a conglomeration of different ideas just like this. I actually thought, when I first joined this forum just after it switched servers, that, seeing as how I had seen Bounty Hunter ranks on the old one and then just a few Pirate ranks in the new one, that they were selectable. Of course, I felt pretty foolish when I found out the truth. But anyway, I think that would be an excellent addition to the forums. More than anything, the ranks are really a nice 'present', a congratulations for sticking with the forum for so long, at least in cases like mine. A nice touch that, yes, wouldn't be the death of the forum if removed, but it DOES improve the forums. If it wouldn't be too much hassle, I think that would be about perfect. Perhaps one of the 'disciplinary' measures - say, if someone was to reach 2nd Warning, then if they then quietened again they would have to have the default rank track?
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Core X
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonsterERB wrote:
also make a "default track" where your rank would be "new member" for the first 30 days, "SCU veteran" after that.
...


Veteran after 30 days? I'd say more 6-7 months.
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Dark Samus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or for all the peolpe who stayed with SCU through the changes.
30-days is too short, I agree with Core X there, because there's so many members that register, don't post for 8 months, and then get their first post. So after those 30 first days, they'd already be an SCU Veteran without even posting.
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MonsterERB wrote:
Very nice. I've always thought that making a great sig/avvy is 50% the skill you have, and 50% the creativity you use in coming up with the concept.
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MonsterERB
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True... maybe 30 days is too short. Maybe "new member", then "member" after 1 month, "veteran" after 6 months, and "old-timer" after 1 year. But, if the user averages less than 10 posts per month, they stay at their current level.
...
Well - that sounds more fair - but MUCH more complex to program into a phpBB board. I'm sure Mills doesn't want to update all ranks manually... so if there's no easy way to code it in/MOD it in, it's not going to happen.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of choosing your rank track. But we need a metroid rank track.
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Dark Samus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonsterERB wrote:
True... maybe 30 days is too short. Maybe "new member", then "member" after 1 month, "veteran" after 6 months, and "old-timer" after 1 year. But, if the user averages less than 10 posts per month, they stay at their current level.
...
Well - that sounds more fair - but MUCH more complex to program into a phpBB board. I'm sure Mills doesn't want to update all ranks manually... so if there's no easy way to code it in/MOD it in, it's not going to happen.



*waits for PE to come*

That's a much more feasible idea.

MonsterERB wrote:
But, if the user averages less than 10 posts per month, they stay at their current level.


That's where the problem would come in. As far as I know, in phpBB, you cannot set up a posting time-frame. If that would be the case, then yes, it's not going to happen if the ranks have to be done manually.

IMO-the first ranks for people who won't get over about 100 posts or something, should get Metroid-related ranks, then the people who get a certain amount of posts and have shown that they are staying at SCU for good (unless they get banned), should get ranks relative to SCU.[/quote]
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MonsterERB wrote:
Very nice. I've always thought that making a great sig/avvy is 50% the skill you have, and 50% the creativity you use in coming up with the concept.
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Core X
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't think 100 posts is enough. Unless they're an IRC frerquenter-person.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused

For as much as people say post count doesn't---or at least shouldn't---matter, there's a lot of talk about it still. Also, what about post quality? Duration does not equal quality; just because someone's been a member for the predetermined 90 days, or has the requisite 100 posts does not necessarily make them a quality member. The focus should be on the quality of the posts the poster makes and the quality of character that they present---not on how many posts they can achieve or how long they can be a member before their rank changes and they can be seen as quality and/or respectable.

This is all just suggestion and speculation and no one's saying what's going to happen yet. To do all this speculation over how many posts makes someone a veteran as opposed to a n00b or changes their title comes right back to the fact that too much emphasis and energy is going into something that really doesn't need it.

All suggestions receive consideration (not necessarily implementation, but definitely consideration), but right now, the best suggestion I can offer is to just sit back, take a deep breath, exhale, and relax. There's really no need to get things heated right now, or worry about it until any of us knows for sure if anything is going to happen with it.
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Dark Samus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you 100% with the quality of posts. The only problem with getting ranks for the effort put into your posts-if I red your post correctly-is that it cannot be translated into phpBB.
So, phpBB cannot recognize high quality posts.
Other than that, I agreed with your entire post.
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MonsterERB wrote:
Very nice. I've always thought that making a great sig/avvy is 50% the skill you have, and 50% the creativity you use in coming up with the concept.
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MonsterERB
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moonlight Sonata wrote:
Confused
For as much as people say post count doesn't---or at least shouldn't---matter, there's a lot of talk about it still. Also, what about post quality? Duration does not equal quality; just because someone's been a member for the predetermined 90 days, or has the requisite 100 posts does not necessarily make them a quality member...

Moony, my "10 posts per month" thing was (a) arbitrary, and (b) a response to the criticism that someone who's been a member for 6 months and posted once in the "Hi I'm new" forum doesn't really deserve the rank of "SCU veteran". I chose 10 posts per month because it seems to me like that's about the minimum to expect from a member who may not have a lot to say, but does visit the boards regularly and posts occasionally.
...
I really don't expect a "membership time" rank track to be implemented. But - it would be neat if there were several rank tracks available based on post count.
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Darth Nat
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this discussion confuses me greatly, because when asked if post count matters when judging a member, most people will say "No", but then we have these big discussions about how to put people in tiers based on their post counts. It's like we say one thing and then do another. I'm almost for eliminating the post count as well.

Frankly, it disturbs me and disheartens me that we absolutely have to have some system like this or people get upset. It's like that unless we have some way of appeasing the "veteran members" and making the newer members feel like lesser beings that the forum will come crashing down.

It won't.
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