An Inconvenient Truth

 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Samus.nl Forum Index :: Debate and Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
WhiteTigerShiro
Phazon Elite


Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 3638
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:21 am    Post subject: An Inconvenient Truth Reply with quote

I saw this trailer a couple minutes ago. Any thoughts on it based on the trailer alone?

One thing that I remember off-hand is someone mentioning that the planet is simply going through a heating cycle, and that how much or how little we pollute will do nothing to change it. At the same time though... I can't help but wonder if we aren't speeding it along. I mean... all that smog we belch into the atmosphere certainly can't be good for it.

Another thing to consider is whether the threat of water level is real, or just something to get people scared. Could the polar ice caps melt? And if so... what will we do if land becomes more and more scarce? We have barely enough room for people as-is... so what if we suddenly stop having room? What if our already over-populated planet becomes even smaller?

I never really look into such things... so I can't really do much but ask questions based one what I see. So what are your guy's thoughts on this?
_________________
sdwoodchuck, probably the only time in recorded history wrote:
I agree pretty much completely with WTS on this.

Shiro's Space | Shiro's Journal
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Prime_killer
Beam Trooper


Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 577
Location: Highway 209

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the trailer, I'd say that movie-makers are simply taking an idea of the earth's demise and milking it into big bucks with the help of scary words, gripping music and special effects. I mean, we've all seen these horrible incidents like the hurricane disaster, and have been affected by it, but that doesn't mean it should be used as movie footage made to scare the viewer. You really think that will change much? And it's even stupid, to take something serious and something that needs change, and then to turn it into a simple movie, that most viewers will feel are just made-up happenings for a good movie!

But really, if the threat is real, then yeah, we're screwed unless we find a way to stop all the pollution we put into our atmosphere. do I have a solution? No. But we all see and know WHY it's all happening, it's just that creating solutions is scary to people; and expensive as hell.

Really, what will we do? I don't know how much of it all is true; I highly doubt that most of the really bad things about Global warming is true. But still, it's something to think about.

just goes to show how scientists can really jump to conclusions...
_________________
Currently listening to: Death From Above 1979

"It was a rule he aimed to fix. And only a man such as he could aim his attention at the rule that bound them all together."


Last edited by Prime_killer on Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dark X
Flying Pirate


Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 865
Location: Two RPs and a fanfiction... good stuff.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think they'll melt.

First was the Ice Age. It eventually wore off and things warmed up again. Has there been another one since? No. Things have gotten steadily hotter. I think that Earth goes through cycles, as you said, and that it's completely natural.

But those chemicals are bad for the atmosphere. They certainly can't be causing it alone, but they might be helping it. We could be causing global warming to an extent. I think the whole "We are directly causing the downfall of the planet" is bunk.

But things will probably eventually cool down. I'm just worried if we'll get burned up before that. Neutral
_________________

<3 Mochtroid. Awesome avatar by Monster.
Tyler Durden wrote:
Listen to Dark X, Dark X is wise.
Intervention: Lenario
Betrayal: Noxus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Midget
SA SW Discoverer


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 4634
Location: To be decided.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I have to say about Al Gore and his so-called "man-made" global warming, and this damn stupid movie he's made:

1. Al, you wouldn't know truth if it slugged you in the face. Michael Chrichton? He's done his research.

2. If you want to learn about global warming, don't watch a movie made by a politician. Read Michael Chrichton's book, State of Fear. Don't believe the message the book is giving you? Take a look at the back of the book, which is comprised of a very long bibliography of cited sources. That means he's got facts on his side. Al? Where's your bibliography, buddy? Hm?

3. People who believe in global warming believe in arrogance, more accurately they believe in bathing in the stuff, lavishing itself upon themselves. If you think that humanity has actually had such a profound effect on something as gigantic as a planet in a span of, at most, a few thousand years, then you're arrogant beyond belief and I'm mildly shocked. Global warming is not a lie, the lie is that humanity is the cause. It's a natural process, everybody needs to take a chill pill and realize the hoax we're being fed.

I don't believe in man-made global warming. That's an arrogant lie I can't swallow. Good luck Al, I hope your movie bombs. Sweat
_________________

http://believil.deviantart.com/
HayIsForMooses (12:39:55 AM): i may fail at math, but YOU fail at speliling
sdwoodchuck wrote:
At E3, if Nintendo plays "Wii Will Rock You," that's it. I quit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Mr. Prime
Elite Pirate


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2301
Location: Phazon Mines

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is indeed a natural cycle our planet goes through. And chances are, there will eventually be another Ice Age. Then, it will start over again.

Saying that however, I am willing to bet quite a lot, that the pollution is making it worse. Sure, it is not the cause of it, but it is indeed speeding it along, and accelerating the whole process Sweat
_________________

Thanks to Def Leppard for the sweet Sig!
http://s7.invisionfree.com/phazon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Midget
SA SW Discoverer


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 4634
Location: To be decided.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even IF there is some truth to the statement that man-made pollution is accelerating the process, it's a very MINOR accelerator. VERY minor. I read somewhere, and will confirm this later, that the carbon dioxide emissions of humanity that enter the atmosphere are, I believe, less than 1% of the total emissions released into the atmosphere by the planet (supposedly most of it comes from volcanoes). Like I said, pick up Michael Chrichton's book State of Fear. Guy's a smart man.
_________________

http://believil.deviantart.com/
HayIsForMooses (12:39:55 AM): i may fail at math, but YOU fail at speliling
sdwoodchuck wrote:
At E3, if Nintendo plays "Wii Will Rock You," that's it. I quit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
sdwoodchuck
Elite Pirate


Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 1494
Location: Kahului, HI

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midget wrote:
All I have to say about Al Gore and his so-called "man-made" global warming, and this damn stupid movie he's made:


Have you watched the film?

Quote:
1. Al, you wouldn't know truth if it slugged you in the face. Michael Chrichton? He's done his research.

2. If you want to learn about global warming, don't watch a movie made by a politician. Read Michael Chrichton's book, State of Fear. Don't believe the message the book is giving you? Take a look at the back of the book, which is comprised of a very long bibliography of cited sources. That means he's got facts on his side. Al? Where's your bibliography, buddy? Hm?


Have you seen the film? Considering he's studied the topic for far longer than any of us have, I don't doubt for a second he has his sources air-tight. He's not a sensationalist like Michael Moore. For that matter, it isn't a political film.

Quote:
3. People who believe in global warming believe in arrogance, more accurately they believe in bathing in the stuff, lavishing itself upon themselves. If you think that humanity has actually had such a profound effect on something as gigantic as a planet in a span of, at most, a few thousand years, then you're arrogant beyond belief and I'm mildly shocked. Global warming is not a lie, the lie is that humanity is the cause. It's a natural process, everybody needs to take a chill pill and realize the hoax we're being fed.


You don't believe people can have a devastating impact on an entire planet over a few thousand year span? Okay, sure, those Rain Forests cut themselves down.

Quote:
I don't believe in man-made global warming. That's an arrogant lie I can't swallow. Good luck Al, I hope your movie bombs. Sweat


Now, I have no problem with not believing in Global Warming--I personally have not heard enough evidence for either side to be 100% certain either way. I do believe that the evidence is more in favor of the theory than against. You can spout off about lies all you like, but after a post like this, calling anyone else arrogant just bleeds hypocrisy.
_________________

Super Metroid: 00:34 - 26%
My 1Up Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Spire
Flying Pirate


Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 745
Location: Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having both read State of Fear and seen "Inconvenient Truth", I can rightfully say that I think Al Gore wins. Crichton wrote a good novel, and he did throw in some convincing statistics, but most of them were out of context. In addition, most of Crichton's proofs were that CO2 emissions aren't causing global warming, while he conceded that other manmade causes are fueling it. Anyone who has seen "Inconvenient Truth" should remember the scene with the long-term global temperature chart. This disspells any doubt that there might be a cycle: the most recent heat climb is way bigger than any of the previous ones.
_________________


Thanks to MonsterERB for the sig and Daz for the avatar.

Dark X, on the SCU Mafia Game wrote:
Man... this game has more plot twists than an episode of Scooby Doo.


*I AM NOT NAMED AFTER THE MP:H CHARACTER.*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joey
Shadow Pirate


Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: Space Pirate Mothership

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what to think... our existence as the prime species on this planet has placed inredible responsibility on us as a race to keep the planet alive. However, a certain amount of humans are purely greedy, care nothing about the environment as long as they make money and gain power. Money is the foundation of human life, or at least thats what we made it... Nothing matters to some people but making more of it...
The carelessness of some is destructive to this planet...

Sorry for getting so emo and all, but just wanted to give my true opinion...
_________________

Metroid Prime Hunters: Betrayal= Infernus
Special Thanks to: Phazon Metroid (sigs), Mochtroid (Avatar)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Midget
SA SW Discoverer


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 4634
Location: To be decided.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdwoodchuck wrote:
Now, I have no problem with not believing in Global Warming--I personally have not heard enough evidence for either side to be 100% certain either way. I do believe that the evidence is more in favor of the theory than against. You can spout off about lies all you like, but after a post like this, calling anyone else arrogant just bleeds hypocrisy.


Normally what you said there would bother me, but coming from a person who never chooses sides and always strikes the middle ground, I've stopped caring. I don't see how anything you presented to me in your response shows that we've had a profound effect on the environment, by the way. You told me something humans have done. Humans have done lots of things. How that has had a profound, permanent, and absolutely disastrous effect on the environment escapes me, because you didn't mention it. Yes, cutting down rainforests has had an effect on the environment. Profound and disastrous? Not so much. The meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, THAT was profound and disastrous. Get back to me when we've done that.

I also can't believe you said "it isn't a political film." Sure, it's not directly about politics, but it will have a similar effect to Farenheit 9/11, I believe. If I'm not mistaken, the democratic party is where the majority of politicians who support the theory of global warming are located, so this film can only help them. On some level it could be pushing a political agenda. But then again I haven't seen the film, so I'm not allowed to have an opinion on it, right? Rolling Eyes

I don't care if you think I'm arrogant - I'm confident in what I believe, and you can't get me to buy into the idea that humanity is single-handedly wrecking the planet Earth, or even mostly responsible for wrecking it. Call me an optimist, but I just don't believe that possible.

And Spire, I'm confused that you say that the planet is going through a heat spike. I remember that Chricton's novel included multiple pages of graphs that showed, in many locations around the globe, temperatures were either actually dropping or staying at a level point (over the last 50-100 years, I believe?). If in fact temperatures are rising again, then it's important to note that, also found in Chrichton's book, some time in the last 2 centuries (I believe early 20th) temperatures around the globe spiked enormously as well. We're actually overdue for the next ice age people, one temperature spike != end of world.

I stand by my belief that it's a natural cycle (with minor human influence possible), call me arrogant and hypocritical all you want.
_________________

http://believil.deviantart.com/
HayIsForMooses (12:39:55 AM): i may fail at math, but YOU fail at speliling
sdwoodchuck wrote:
At E3, if Nintendo plays "Wii Will Rock You," that's it. I quit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
sdwoodchuck
Elite Pirate


Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 1494
Location: Kahului, HI

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midget wrote:


Normally what you said there would bother me, but coming from a person who never chooses sides and always strikes the middle ground, I've stopped caring. I don't see how anything you presented to me in your response shows that we've had a profound effect on the environment, by the way. You told me something humans have done. Humans have done lots of things. How that has had a profound, permanent, and absolutely disastrous effect on the environment escapes me, because you didn't mention it. Yes, cutting down rainforests has had an effect on the environment. Profound and disastrous? Not so much. The meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, THAT was profound and disastrous. Get back to me when we've done that.


The idea is to prevent something that catastrophic. Once we've done it, it's too late to point fingers and assign blame. Furthermore, I was not arguing the idea of Global Warming--As I've said, I don't follow the science well enough to make an argument for it that I'm confident of, but the sources I've heard in support of the theory I find more reliable than those against.

Whether the destruction of the rainforests had a profound and disasterous effect depends on two things: First, your perspective. From a perspective of protecting individual ecosystems, it has already been horribly devastating. There are some who don't so much care about that--I admit myself I'm not that enthralled by that position. The second condition though, is whether the effect is an immediate one. No, it has not dramatically changes our lives--yet. However, rainforests with their dense population of plantlife were responsible for converting lots of Carbon Dioxide into Oxygen. Carbon Dioxide heats our planet. Thus, by removing a large chunk of what converts it (as well as producing a significant amount ourselves), we are reducing our planet's ability to cool itself. Has it had a dramatic effect yet? Debateable, but a devastating effect for our actions in regards to rainforests may yet be coming.

Quote:
I also can't believe you said "it isn't a political film." Sure, it's not directly about politics, but it will have a similar effect to Farenheit 9/11, I believe. If I'm not mistaken, the democratic party is where the majority of politicians who support the theory of global warming are located, so this film can only help them. On some level it could be pushing a political agenda. But then again I haven't seen the film, so I'm not allowed to have an opinion on it, right? Rolling Eyes


There's a big difference between Farenheit 911 and a real documentary. First off, Michael Moore doesn't make documentaries. He makes opinion pieces with misleading and skewed evidence. Even when I agree with Moore on his conclusions, I'm disgusted by his methods of getting there more often than not.

By your argument, everything is politics, because everything can be skewed toward a political light. This movie does not deal with politics though, it deals with science. Whether you'd consider the science political, well that's just an argument that's going to go in circles.

Quote:
I don't care if you think I'm arrogant - I'm confident in what I believe, and you can't get me to buy into the idea that humanity is single-handedly wrecking the planet Earth, or even mostly responsible for wrecking it. Call me an optimist, but I just don't believe that possible.

And Spire, I'm confused that you say that the planet is going through a heat spike. I remember that Chricton's novel included multiple pages of graphs that showed, in many locations around the globe, temperatures were either actually dropping or staying at a level point (over the last 50-100 years, I believe?). If in fact temperatures are rising again, then it's important to note that, also found in Chrichton's book, some time in the last 2 centuries (I believe early 20th) temperatures around the globe spiked enormously as well. We're actually overdue for the next ice age people, one temperature spike != end of world.


It's not a good idea to reference a fictional novel which has been ripped apart by the scientific community for misrepresenting scientifc research, even to the point where some of its own sources attack the author as having little more than a second hand understanding of the facts.

Crichton can reference all he likes, but information misused and taken out of context is not much of a boost to his argument. You can dismiss a "politician's movie" all you like, but if you're going to use a fiction author as your support, you're not standing on any more stable ground.

Quote:
I stand by my belief that it's a natural cycle (with minor human influence possible), call me arrogant and hypocritical all you want.
As I said, the opinion is a perfectly understandable one, but when you start calling people who argue against it "arrogant liars" and claiming your opinion as fact, you are being arrogant, and hypocritical.
_________________

Super Metroid: 00:34 - 26%
My 1Up Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Midget
SA SW Discoverer


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 4634
Location: To be decided.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to throw pride out the window... I was being arrogant and hypocritical. I had no reason to doubt Crichton's crediblility, I didn't know better, but you've given me reason to now. At some point later on I'm going to re-think this entire debate, but for now I don't want to think about it anymore so I'll just retract my current stance and apologize for once again speaking before thinking.
_________________

http://believil.deviantart.com/
HayIsForMooses (12:39:55 AM): i may fail at math, but YOU fail at speliling
sdwoodchuck wrote:
At E3, if Nintendo plays "Wii Will Rock You," that's it. I quit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
sdwoodchuck
Elite Pirate


Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 1494
Location: Kahului, HI

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Midget wrote:
Time to throw pride out the window... I was being arrogant and hypocritical. I had no reason to doubt Crichton's crediblility, but you've given me reason to now. At some point later on I'm going to re-think this entire debate, but for now I don't want to think about it anymore so I'll just retract my current stance and apologize for once again speaking before thinking.


One thing I've always respected and admired about you is that you have no problem admitting when you've jumped ahead of yourself. It's something we all do, and too few of us are able to come forward and simply retract what was said (I've been guilty of this in the past, and is one reason I tend to sit on the fence and not put too much stake in things I don't have personal knowledge of, as you've noticed). I may have been a little too brash in my approach as well, and I'm sorry for that.

As I've said, I tend to believe the Global Warming theories because they tend to make more sense to me, and the research seems a little more credible to me. Again though, it's opinion, and since I can't claim to have a deep understanding of the science behind it, I have to acknowledge that it is entirely possible for information to be misused and I would have no way of arguing it. Also, I don't know how accurate our understanding of the situation is. For these reasons, I can't say with strong conviction which is "truth."

I do believe that polution and destruction of plantlife are harmful even if not on the devastating level, and even if Global Warming is a lie, if that's what it takes to make people more environmentally conscious, I will promote the hell out of that lie.
_________________

Super Metroid: 00:34 - 26%
My 1Up Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Midget
SA SW Discoverer


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 4634
Location: To be decided.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdwoodchuck wrote:
I do believe that polution and destruction of plantlife are harmful even if not on the devastating level, and even if Global Warming is a lie, if that's what it takes to make people more environmentally conscious, I will promote the hell out of that lie.


I disagree with that approach simply because I base my life and my values off of the principle of honesty. I don't care whether or not global warming is a lie, I won't promote a lie in order to raise environmental awareness - in my opinion there are ways to do it that, to me, are better and more credible. However I have respect for you and I understand that other people don't value honesty the way I do. There's nothing wrong with that, but it just bothers me ever so slightly when I hear people say "If lying is what it takes, that's what I'll do." If global warming is actually proven to be real then I will have no qualms supporting it and spreading awareness, but a lie is something I can't spread.

Anyway, thanks again for being patient with me, you're one of the few people I've debated with who takes the time to provide facts and respond calmly when I make posts like that, and it's helped me immensely to understand issues that I often didn't think about enough beforehand. You have a great ability to slowly and purposefully examine every side of an issue before stating an opinion on it - something I lack. But I'm trying to learn better, of course with ample help from people like you, who are there to correct me when I spout off... I'm even considering going to see Gore's movie now - though my father would be terribly unhappy with me if I did that. Maybe I let him rub off on me a little too often, eh? Neutral
_________________

http://believil.deviantart.com/
HayIsForMooses (12:39:55 AM): i may fail at math, but YOU fail at speliling
sdwoodchuck wrote:
At E3, if Nintendo plays "Wii Will Rock You," that's it. I quit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Samus.nl Forum Index :: Debate and Discussion All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Charcoal2 Theme © Zarron Media